In this bonus episode, Cass is joined by Dr. Nancy Fox—the president of the LEAF Program— to discuss Tick prevention and awareness. Together, they have traveled over 15,000 miles, through 20 states educating over 6,000 children on the matter.
This episode covers:
What Lyme Disease is
Tip prevention techniques—including what clothing to wear
How to perform a tick check
How to properly remove a tick and find treatment
Helpful Links:
For more information on LEAF, check out theleafprogram.org
Transcript:
C: Welcome everybody to a special bonus episode of The It Goes Without Saying podcast I am Cass your host and I am joined today by my best friend even though we are separated by 30 years. Dr. Nancy Fox Welcome. Welcome, Nancy.
N: So great to see you today and hear your voice.
C: Nancy Fox has been an educator for over 25 years, and she has been a pioneer in the Lyme community for the last 10 years. She has written two children's book on Lyme disease, "No Ticks, Please," and "Hide and Seek No Ticks, Please." There's a bonus in the Spanish versions as well. And she's currently working on her third educational children's book all about different chronic illnesses. Nancy also created a full K through 12 curriculum that many schools have now purchased and are using to educate their kids about Lyme disease through all different class types health, science, math, whatever you take, you can learn something about Lyme disease and prevention. And she created the Lyme education awareness foundation or leaf, which she has graciously allowed me to be the VP of for the past. What are we on now three years? I think three years, three years where we go around, and we educate different kids and their parents and whoever else is listening about Lyme disease and tick prevention techniques together. We have educated over 6000 kids through about 20 different states, I think if we count them all up, and we have traveled over 15,000 miles together in her little Prius. So welcome Dr. Nancy Fox, and thank you for being here to educate all of our listeners about Lyme disease, tick prevention and awareness.
N: Thank you so much Cass for having me today. It's always a pleasure to reach people and let them know how the other pandemic has been going on for decades. And many people don't understand that. But it's starting to be correlated. And Lyme disease needs that kind of recognition that media recognition that we don't always get
C: Agreed. So let's kick it off by talking about what is Lyme disease for you. And how long have you been a Lyme warrior for because she also has Lyme disease.
N: Okay, well, the estimation is I will had Lyme disease approximately 14 or 15 years prior to being diagnosed. So that makes me the Lyme warrior. And now pass that diagnosis. We are we're at the 30 over the 30 year mark. So Lyme disease for me is tired, too tired, to get up, to crawl across the floor to go to the bathroom. Lyme disease for me is achy joints and not understanding why they are there. Lyme disease for me is an early aging process. Lyme disease for me is going maxing out your credit cards to get the treatment that you so desperately need to get your life back on track. It is also a miscommunication with the people you love, and the people around you, your friends, your family, everyone because no one understands this gradual progression that I I experienced. And not being able to do all the things that you're expected to do as a member of a family unit or friends or whatever. It also is a launch into something that I love. So without Lyme disease, I don't know that two books that would help many, many children and adults would have occurred. So for me, it's also looking at all the tough, challenging parts of Lyme disease also gave me the springboard to write, to communicate, to educate on a level that I never expected.
C: I'm gonna throw in there also not only just the two books, but the whole entire curriculum and all the people that you have touched so don't don't bring yourself down lady, you know, that's why I'm here to bring you up.
N: You guys just have to remember me how, remind me how busy I was. Once I got past the stage of not being able to think, move or do into full fledged with somebody got to know about this. And as an educator, children have to be educated about this and maybe they could teach their parents the safety techniques. And we can get to the parents who don't always understand as I didn't understand pre diagnosis of Lyme and babesia and all the other micro organisms that were floating around. My my body that a small tick bite could change your life, and what our slogan is changing and saving children's lives one lesson at a time, because what I learned is safety isn't a priority unless you know how dangerous it is. Everybody knows that if you're walking across the street, and you don't look both ways before you start the walk, it can be dangerous. Most people don't understand the danger, and getting a tiny little tick bite. And therefore I found it my mission to do so. So prevention is key.
C: That was a good analogy. I like that that is so good. We need to add that in next tour. That's so good.
N: Glad We're recording it.
C: We're just a little fun tidbit of information. When we traveled together, Nancy sometimes has to be my body because my body wouldn't work. And I'm then I'm her brain because I would remember things. So that's how we work we function as one human being together.
N: Yes, that's the beauty of our teamwork.
C: So you talked about the important things and stuff. So can you explain to us some of the dangers of ticks and things like that? Because Nancy, aren't they just a little tiny bug?
N: Yeah, they're a little tiny bug that crawls around looking for a blood meal, because that's how they survive. It's like going to McDonald's and filling up with everything you possibly get. Not that we would do that. But because we would rather go to Whole Foods and fill up there. But that's what they do. They just go and they they just gorge themselves until they have enough to sustain themselves for many, many weeks, months, whatever it may be for them, depending on their stage of life. And they also when they do that they pick up viruses and bacteria. And that those viruses and bacteria actually can be very harmful and parasitic to the human body, the Lyme disease bacteria, the powassan virus can actually be deadly. And not to scare anyone on this call. But you know, just to realize that a tick pick up so many different variations. You know, I think the general public is learning that the variations of a virus or a bacteria can be so hard to detect. So those little ticks pick the you know, viruses and bacteria up as they go along and get their blood meal. And eventually they come and bite a human and or they bite our pets or they never get to the pet but they drop off and by the human in the family. And then that causes us severe issues that may happen immediately, or may not may lie dormant and just cause havoc.
C: Yes. And then another thing that we always mention while we are doing our thing. So we know that ticks, they carry all these different bacterias. But one tick can lay up to three to 5000 eggs. So that's one tick creating three to 5000 more new ticks at a time. And then they have to go and find something or someone to have a meal from afterwards. I think that aspect as well is just so when you think about that number and you're like wait a second. Wait a second, that is a lot of ticks. And you do go find something to eat. And who's the closest to them
N: mice, rabbits, cats, dogs, humans, all kinds of little mammals out there in the wooded area where they normally are when they probably are hatched out or in wooded piles, or in the tall grasses or on a log that's been laying around. That's probably where that mass of tick eggs are found.
C: I say if you want to gross yourself out, you can go ahead and Google a tick nest. It's discussing. Yes, it gives me the heebie jeebies. I can't do it.
N: It's so gross and so dangerous, but doesn't look that dangerous. It just looks gross.
C: And you would never know. So a question that we also I'm going to play like the Oh, I'm new to the world kind of person. But Nancy, I thought it was just deer ticks that you have to watch out for.
N: Oh my goodness. Ticks just if it's a tick, you have to watch it. There are so many the Asian long horned tick that was discovered a couple of years ago. Deer ticks.
C: Lone Star tick
N: Lone Star my favorite not really but Lone Star because I found one on me. Luckily, I didn't get the meat allergy that goes along with that Lone Star tick. So for some reason that tick didn't have it, which I'm also need to clarify that all not all ticks have bacteria and viruses, but studies have shown 50 percent of the ticks and an area are usually infected. So you're going to take a 5050 chance at possibly getting a bacteria or virus that could change your life.
C: But Nancy, they told me that ticks don't live where I live,
N: okay? I have yet to see a tick, throw up the flag and say up, no, that's the border, I can't cross there. I don't think they have those color signs or whatever. And if they're on a deer and the deer run from here, there and everywhere. Yes, there's concentrated area that's warm and moist, which is their survival environment. But ticks have been found in every state in the United States and all over the world. So there may be less ticks, there's only 2000 eggs being laid in your area instead of five. I'm just saying that off the cuff. The thing is, is that they've been found everywhere and people have been infected. In every state in the United States and all over the world, Canada has a huge problem. And that just emerged about three years ago, where people started to make the connection between the illnesses of the people in that area with Lyme disease. So that's just one example.
C: My favorite tidbit that we share with the kids and they go oh, is we say like Nancy just said that Lyme disease and the other tick borne illnesses and ticks have been found on all 50 states. But they have also been found on all seven continents. There are penguins in Antarctica, that they have a study done, that they found the borrelia burgdorferi bacteria in these penguins. So Lyme disease and ticks are everywhere. But what about Nancy, they're only here in the summertime. So like when I go out in the fall like I don't have to worry about things, you know,
N: sure, you may think that. But leaf litter is one of the favorite places for ticks to hide. So when you play the cover me up with leaves and find me and all of that and jumping in the leaves and all of those activities, you're actually putting yourself at risk for getting a tick on you and possibly being affected and causing some illness. And guess what ticks have been frozen in water and then come back alive. And so even in the really frosty temperatures, which global warning warming if we are having more warm days in many regions and places that didn't that used to have hard freezes. And what's happening is the ticks are able to be 365 days a year out and about maybe because in some colder regions, people aren't out and about as much and the tics may slow down their activity. However, they're still out there. 365 7/24.
C: So the study that Nancy is referring to, I believe is the one that was an Old Dominion University a few years ago and they took a tick and they froze it. And then they kept it frozen for like I think it was six months or so. Then they took it out and let it defrost and then the tick crawled away. So yeah, they can survive in the freezing cold. And then Chris Newby in her book bitten, which we highly recommend to read, have documented a study where they found tick surviving in water. And I think it was like for like 70 days or something like that. It's just they can they are indestructible. They've just lived through everything. So Nancy, now that I know that I will one I need to watch out for all of the ticks, not just your ticks, that ticks are everywhere, and that they are here 365 days of the year. What can I do to not get bit by a tick,
N: one of the first things we teach is to wear light colored clothing and white light colored clothing does not repel a tick, but it lets you see if a tick is crawling on you. But before you even get your clothes you need on you. You really need to use either natural or chemical repellents so that a tick doesn't want to climb on your shoes doesn't want or if it does, it's killed instantly or within a few seconds. And there are products out there that can do that. So whether you like the natural products or the chemical products, and saw yours has a product that you can wash your clothes in and that will repel ticks for weeks and they generously sponsor the leaf program. But if you prefer a natural situation, do whatever it takes to repel the ticks and for your pets as well. Because your pets need a repellent but remember if you're putting a repellent on your pets or their ingesting a repellent to those now they have chewables. That is a repellent. So when the pets have a repellent on them guess where if they climb on them, then they decide they don't want to be there near that repellent. Where are they dropping off possibly in your house. So that I think many people don't even think about is we I believe most of us are all of us give our pets a repellent for these things to save our pets from disease, Lyme disease and so forth. But then we don't realize that those repellents could cause them to drop off and get on us. That's why we would need to wash our clothes in a repellent or use a natural repellent to to reward off the text also. So we talked about the clothing then you put on your light colored clothing. Well when you do that, especially if you're going into high risk areas, and we'll talk about that a little bit. But you want to tuck your pants into your socks and start a whole new Instagram trend.
C: Yes, everybody wear those long pants tucked into your socks. Even if it is hot outside. It is much better to be sweaty and maybe not look so chic. Then you get Lyme disease. And like Nancy said, if we all go in it together, we're all going to start a new trend and then we won't feel so awkward when we do it. Safety is hot people.
N: And then you had need long sleeve shirts, and then a hat. Because a hat will deter the tick if if you're in a wooded area because despite some thinking that ticks do not crawl above, too far, two to three feet above. We have had reports Cass can tell you that as well. Things dropping on them ticks dropping on them in a wooded area or someplace where it's warm and moist. And some some doctors or researchers may dispel that thought but wear hat. Why not? keep yourself safe? So clothing repellents. Now stick to the center of the trails, you hikers are gonna say no, I can't see what I need to say. Well, you make sure that you stick to the center of the trails, avoid tall grasses and wooded areas. But if you are that hiker that goes out into the wilderness, you need to remember that you need to do a daily tick check.
C: Yes, tick checks are so important. And one other thing to note is that it's not just hikers, which people like often like oh, well I don't do the outdoors like that. You can catch a tick in your backyard, you can get bit walking to I have a woman who was in my support group who literally got bit by a tick walking to her mailbox. Like they especially if you are in endemic areas like the eastern shore, hello Marylanders, that's probably people that are listening to this, we have a lot of freaking ticks all over the place, I have found a tick on my brother in law's car one time, like they are everywhere. So you don't have to be a hiker to go out and get bit by the tick. But like Nancy just said, if you are going outside, literally just going outside ever, it's so important to do a tick check. My nephew knows I've kind of like scared him from going in the grass. He's like, Oh, no, my ball went into the grass. Can I go get it? Like, sure we're just doing tick checks when we go inside. So how does one do a tick check what is a tick check?
N: a tick check starts at the top of your head with the balls of your fingers. And then you rub and get to know your head and all the lumps and bumps is gas and I say have your head because you might have moles of there are lumps and bumps that you wouldn't think about and get to know your head very well and systematically go through the hair and down across your head section by section you probably take at least three sections above the ears, and then go into the nape of the neck. the nape of the neck or the back of the neck where the hair is, is the area where many times ticks are found. So we always throw our hair over our heads, don't we?
C: It's always good to have someone else to check for you as well because I don't know about you, but I can't see the back of my neck. If someone else is with you. Have them just be like Hey, check my neck, would you I make my friends do it. If we ever go anywhere. I'm like, by the way, you're checking for ticks when we get back.
N: Exactly. So check for ticks. Brad Paisley Yes. That's so we're gonna check for ticks and then start going down the shoulders and you want to I have to say this. You want to touch and Rub like you're taking a shower, and up under the armpits. That is one of the warmest, moist displays on the body. So check there if you feel anything that especially if it flip flops, you know, rub your hand over something a tick will flip flop the if you could rub in different directions, check between your fingers, and rub each side, left and right. And then you keep going down the body lift and separate as I always say. There's parts of the body that has creases and rolls and a belly button. Oh my gosh, the belly button.
C: Yes, it can be in your belly button. It can also be in your ears. So make sure that you check your ears ears are especially for young kids. I have seen quite a few times, parents with pictures of their toddlers with a tick in their ear. And you don't check like the ears very often people are like it's an ear who cares about it? No, check your ears. Because I think ears are also very warm. At least my ears are always very warm compared to the rest of your body. But then, as Nancy was just talking about, you got to check your rolls and your creases. And you got to get your nooks and crannies. Make sure you check your private parts people Oh, it's getting spicy on the podcast today.
N: Yes, between those legs, and in the creases any place where your body folds over that. I've had little kids actually cast and I've been on the road and little kids say Oh, yeah, I had one on mhm
C: one of my cousin's had one on his when he was a baby, the first tick that I ever saw, actually, that I know.
N: Yes. So as crazy as that sounds, we still need to check those areas. And then you roll your hands on down that leg and behind the knees. Knees is warm and moist. Actually, my granddaughter had a tick behind her knee. And
C: I call him the armpit legs, your armpit legs, and back there. Yep, you got to check behind your leg.
N: And of course, all the way down to your feet and back between those toes. Yes, every inch or centimeter millimeter of your body needs to be checked more so in the warm, moist areas, but I've also pulled ticks off of my granddaughter or just on her on her calf muscle. Yes, yes, all of the above. So every millimeter of your body you should check.
C: Also important when you come inside before you do the tick check. We always recommend taking your clothes off and putting them immediately into the dryer, not the wash because as we learned a few minutes ago, ticks can survive in water. So if there are any ticks on your clothing, put them in the dryer, the high heat will hopefully kill them. And then you should immediately get into the shower. You can even perform the tick check in the shower or right after you get out of the shower. And for those with little children. us at the LEAF program. Yes, we have come up with the tick check song so you can check it out on our website if you want to. I'll give you a little sneak peek right here. I don't want to get bit I don't want to get sick. So I check for hex and then we go all the way through the whole body. So check that out. It's gonna be the new cocomelon learning the tick check song, maybe I'll reach out to cocomelon, get them to make us tick check song up there.
N: Yes, absolutely. So then what if, while you're doing all of that you find a tick, then we have a proper tick removal method because on the internet, you can find all kinds of tick removal processes and 99% of them are incorrect because we have something at the leaf program we call tic spin. And so when you start fooling with a tick and the tick is fighting to get its meal don't get between me and my cheeseburger says okay, so you want to go in with tickeeze tweezers and we promote tickeeze tweezers because they're designed properly. If you don't have those, try tweezers of some sort but tickeeze tweezers have a fine point and a flat tool so that you could go up under the tick. So T is for tweezers using fine point tweezers. I is inserted up under the tick so that you are getting there
C: as you want to grab it by the Hypastome.
N: You read my mind girl.
C: So ticks if you grab it by the belly if you're full. He just had Thanksgiving dinner and someone comes up and squeezes you soup. We're super tight around your stomach, you're gonna either throw up or feel like you're going to throw up. That's exactly what the tick is going to feel like. And so the part that is attached to the tick is called the Hypastome. And Nancy always calls it, it's the shovel. It's the part that sticks out, it's the tick, and it digs into your skin and burrows in. And that's where it latches on with its little hooks. And that's how it stays inside of you. So you've got to hold on to the Hypastome to make sure you get number one, the full takeout. But to make sure number two, you don't squeeze that baby by the belly. Because why shouldn't we squeeze it by the belly Nance,
N: bacteria viruses live in the ticks belly. Yeah, and that's why we call it ticks bit because they follow the tick spit into the wound that they've created on the body. And then you're just kind of pushing any bacteria and viruses that may not have gotten into you before into your body during the removal process. So you want to grab constantly and consistently on that episode, see is constant consistent pressure and pull straight up. Because if we pull straight up are not readjusting and grabbing the belly of the tick, we're not grabbing the ticket, just throwing it in for you know, and then everybody wants to burn the tech. And K is keep the tick in the ziplock bag, label it and date it and s send the tick off for testing. Because you can test the tech for various viruses and bacteria, which is a whole lot less expensive than trying to play needle in the haystack with the symptoms and trying to figure out what's going on the tick will tell you or the scientists the lab, what if any viruses or bacteria have been in that tick. And then your doctor knows exactly what protocol to go to and what how to treat you.
C: Also, the tick testing is more accurate than the testing that they have for humans. So it's much better to get the actual test for the tick then for us. But Nancy, my question to you is, why the heck don't I burn that tick or flush it down the toilet like I've been told to do for my entire life?
N: Well, I don't like the whole idea that the tick can swim and swim back up into the toilet and bite you again. And whoever walks into the after you've been there, and that tick is flushing or you thought it was flushed, and it kind of grabbed on to the side start growing back. And then it's looking for a blood meal. I don't know. But I remember you but I'm not liking it. So it also you don't burn it. Because then you've lost your evidence, your evidence on whether it had bacteria or viruses because 5050 chances it did 5050 chances it didn't. So you don't know if you're infected or not infected. So burning, it doesn't help you at all flushing it down the toilet Good god somebody else to get bed. And he also lost your evidence. So then you see a doctor and you go I had a I had a tick bite if you take that. If you send it off to be tested, then you have that evidence. And then they know what how to treat you. Also, if you see the doctor, you when you have a tick with you, if you take it to the doctor immediately if you can get an appointment that quick. The doctor if they're knowledgeable, may I please say that.
C: The key if they are knowledgeable.
N: They can see it's a lone star tick and a lone star tick carry certain bacteria viruses, they can see if it's an Asian Longhorn tick, and whether they they have certain things, if it's a deer tick, you know, each tick, for some reason gets different picks up a set of viruses and bacteria. I don't know that we know why they just do that have been linked to them. Especially.
C: And I will also say how Nancy just said if your doctor is knowledgeable, if you go to a doctor and you bring them your tick, and they throw that thing out in the trash. You leave that doctor and you never go back there because that is not an intelligent human being. I have several people that have Lyme disease that went to the doctor, they brought their tick with them. And the doctor said, Oh, we don't need that. It's fine. You don't need to know this. And then they ended up becoming chronically sick with Lyme disease. And not only Lyme disease, they had several other tick infections that if that doctor would have tested that tick, they could have known and prevented this person years of suffering and 1000s and 1000s of dollars lost. So always make sure you send that tick for testing. And if your doctor won't do it, find a new doctor. Find somebody else call me up. I'll help you.
N: Yes, exactly. And Cass and I know that we've been to many doctors with our symptoms and no one for me. I didn't talk about a tick bite because I didn't think about tick bites were dangerous. I grew up on a farm. We just took them off improperly and then When I really got sick, and learned all this prevention information, I'm like, Why is no one telling me this? And then I had doctors that didn't believe I had Lyme disease.
C: Well, I still get people that will talk to me and say, Oh, I had a tick bite me years ago, but it was a dog tick. So I'm fine. And then I'm sitting there talking to them, and they start telling me about all these weird health issues that they've been having. And no doctors can figure it out. And I'm like, Huh, huh, huh, How interesting. We're not taught these things, though. So that is why we have the leaf program and why we are so grateful for Dr. Fox, for taking the initiative to educate these young kids because we believe that children are the future, teach them well and teach them about Lyme disease. And hopefully, we will have a way to end this pandemic, because nobody else is helping us. So education is the key. And that is why we are so grateful for you to be here today.
N: Thank you so much, guys. It's a pleasure. I can't wait to get back out on the road with you and do a few weeks on the road and go see the kids and their excitement and and to see them and the counselor,
C: the counselors are the most fun part because you sit there. So we're supposed to be there for these little kids. And you sit there and you watch these teenagers or early adult counselors and their faces are Oh, what like their jaw hits the ground, because they don't know this either. I wouldn't have known this stuff. If I didn't live this. I'm the one that has been educating my friends for years now about this stuff. And nobody knows, because we haven't been taught. So hopefully, with the work that you are doing, we are making it so the next generation to come up, knows what to do and what to look for. And they teach their parents and their friends and family members what to do and what to look for. And hopefully, we can get the curriculum in all of the school districts across the country and get more education and awareness out there about Lyme disease and ticks.
N: Yes, Lyme disease and ticks and everything else that goes with it. So it will save each individual that has been exposed a lot of grief and heartache and keep hopefully the mission is to keep people from getting exposed to ticks and the diseases they carry. And then on top of that, it will not hit the family financially. And devastating. I mean, Cass's mom is you know and family had been working with her most of her life, and have been through so many anguish moments about her health and what was affecting her and trying to save her and trying to get her lt again. And I have to say she still goes through it like a champion, and the healthiest I've seen her in three years. So you know that pure perseverance and dedication, not only to her own health and well being but the health and well being of others. And now this new podcast, I'm loving it. I'm loving every minute of it. Great to be here.
C: Do you remember that time you let me drive your car for hours after I had been paralyzed for like six months?
C: Yes! To New York City and everywhere.People would go What? What did you put a girl who was paralyzed drive your car?
C: I love you lady. I'm so glad for all of our travels and our Hallmark nights and our jam sessions. And as everybody knows, we end every episode with a song recommendation. So Nancy and I have several songs that we just put all the windows down open the sunroof, and belt out at the top of our lungs. So the one that we have decided on for this podcast is One Less Day Dying Young by Rob Thomas. It's Nancy's favorite she goes oh when she sings it. So thank you again, Dr. Nancy Fox for being here. And for our bonus Lyme disease Awareness Month episode and teaching everybody how to look out for ticks. What they do if they find a tick and everything else in between. Make sure that you guys check out the leaf program we are on Facebook, Instagram. Our website is the leaf program.org they do accept donations and if you would like the Lyme education awareness foundation to come to your neck of the woods and educate everybody around you that you know and love. Make sure you reach out to us on that website. We have a forum you can find our email or phone number. We are always there to help. So thank you very much Nance and I hope everybody has a lovely and safe day. Make sure you check for ticks!
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